Cardinal John Dew is emphatic in his denial of the allegation of sexual abuse levelled against him.
"I can honestly say with every ounce of my being that I have never abused anyone in my life. Ever," he said.
When asked why the public should believe him, he points to his service of the church.
"I would hope that people would believe someone who's now had 48 years of experiences as a priest and has never had an allegation made against me.
"This has come totally out of the blue 46, 47 years later and I'm telling my truth."
But he knows not everyone will take him at his word.
"Some people may find it difficult to believe, but I'm saying that it never happened."
"I'm expressing my word of truth that this allegation never happened,"
His "word of truth" is at odds with the word of Steve Carvell, who alleges that he was abused by Dew when he was seven years old
Carvell says he's 100 percent sure it happened. Dew says he's 100 percent certain it didn't.
The 75-year-old Cardinal walked into the Lower Hutt police station in early December, with his lawyer, to be interviewed by the detective investigating Carvell's allegations.
"It was a long interview," said Dew.
"I think it was about an hour and a half or something. And at that time, the detective read out to me what the allegations were. It was the first time I'd heard them in full. And so, my only interaction with the police has been to respond to their interview, to be present for their interview, and answered every question that was put before me.
"The woman detective who was interviewing me was being observed by another detective as he watched. A couple of times she went out and consulted with him, and she came back and continued the interviewing."
Cardinal Dew says the police spoke to people who were at the orphanage at the time - including another priest who was there, a nun who ran the male dormitory and former residents.
We don't know what Dew told the police, but his lawyer said our interview with Dew was very similar.
The interview
The offer to speak with the Cardinal came as we awaited the Supreme Court ruling - the final hurdle in a lengthy court battle over the story.
"It's the first time I've ever had to respond to any allegations," Dew said.
"Police we're taking a long time. It seemed to me to be taking a long time. And as that was coming to an end, I said, well, okay, let's tell the story."
A day before the interview, Dew had been advised the police investigation into Carvell's complaint had ended.
It was a one-line email sent to his lawyer.
"They've said no charges will be laid and the file is closed," said Dew.
The police response to Newshub was more fulsome, stating that having exhausted all lines of enquiry they had been unable to locate sufficient evidence to meet the test to have a reasonable prospect of conviction.
"Police will always consider new information that may come to light in relation to an investigation," said the statement.
Dew was surprised to hear that.
"Well that's the first time I've heard this. You're telling me that. I don't know. Their word to me has been the case is closed and no charges will be laid. And I was relieved to hear that because I knew that these allegations against me were false."
He's adamant he doesn't remember Steve Carvell.
"I do not remember any of the children from the orphanage, because we didn't go to the orphanage," he said.
The priests lived at the presbytery at St Joseph's parish in Upper Hutt.
The orphanage, run by the sisters of mercy, was on a separate site - within walking distance.
There was a chapel on the grounds and a convent for the nuns. The orphanage was in the same building, but behind the convent.
"We knew that it was there. But we never went there," says Dew.
Priests, including Dew, did however go onto the grounds to host mass at the chapel once a week, after which they would and have breakfast with the nuns in convent.
There was also a pool on the site which Dew says they used.
"A couple of times during the summertime, I can remember having a swim there, but never ever when the children were there."
Steve Carvell alleges he was sexually abused in the male dormitory of the orphanage after a game of tag.
Dew denies entering the dormitory, or ever playing games with children.
He denies interacting with children, even at mass.
"Well, you've got a congregation at mass, so you're not interacting with the individuals."
- If you have more information, contact Michael Morrah in confidence by emailing him at michael.morrah@wbd.com.
The Pope was advised
Dew had learned of the complaint in May last year, on the first day of his retirement after 28 years as the Archbishop of Wellington.
"I was totally surprised. And I remember saying when I was told 'nothing like this has ever happened in my life'. So, I knew that. Immediately, I knew that it wasn't true."
The person who told him was his successor, the new Archbishop Paul Martin.
"He called me and said he needed to see me urgently and told me that these allegations had been made."
"I just said ... 'Paul, I have never been involved in anything like this in my life'."
On May 5, just the night before, the Pope had announced Dew's retirement.
By chance, it was the same day Steve Carvell's complaint was received by the church
"Absolute coincidence. And so that is why I was blown away the next day to be told this." says Dew.
"Canon law requires that we write to the Pope not long before our 75th birthday, saying I offer my resignation, which I did. A letter had been sent in January to the Pope."
But on May 6, another letter was heading to Rome advising the Pontiff that the recently retired Cardinal was accused of sexual abuse.
"Immediately when an allegation has been made against the bishop somewhere in the world, the Vatican needs to be informed," says Dew.
"The response came back to Archbishop Paul's letter, asking them to set up a preliminary investigation to look into the matter."
Instead of easing into his first day of retirement, he found himself being stood down from priestly duties.
"Church protocols ask you to step aside from ministry. And I agreed that I would do that."
He says that was very difficult.
"It meant two very good friends who died in that time, I had to tell their widows 'I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to do this because an allegation has been made against me'.
"There were two times I was asked to do weddings, and I had to say the same thing."
He was not able to attend the installation of the new Archbishop and had to step aside from the Bishop's conference.
He also had to stand down from his role on Te Rōpū Tautoko - the catholic group coordinating with the abuse in care royal commission.
The apology
As the leader of the church in New Zealand in 2021, it was Dew's duty to appear before the royal commission to deliver the Catholic church's apology to survivors of abuse.
"I apologise to you on behalf of the Bishops and congregational leaders of the Catholic church," he said.
"We offer no excuses for their actions, or for ours, that have caused you harm."
When asked what he meant by the words "or for ours", Dew said it was a reference to bishops who had oversees the process over many years.
"That if there hadn't been proper supervision, if there hadn't been proper training, if we hadn't (bishops) ... followed up when an allegation had been made ... that needed an apology because sometimes they weren't followed up properly."
"In the in the 40s, 50s, 60, some things weren't done properly and we regretted that. And that was part of the apology."
As Archbishop, Dew oversaw the stands by his own record of dealing with abuse complaints as Archbishop.
"I believe that I followed up every complaint that was ever made in my time, took my responsibilities very thoroughly in and followed up every complaint that was made.
And he says the official apology still stands, despite the allegations against him being investigated.
"Absolutely. I stand by every word I said and that apology. Every word I said."
