Minor party leaders go head-to-head at Newshub Nation's Powerbrokers debate

The four leaders with moderator Simon Shepard
The four leaders with moderator Simon Shepard Photo credit: Newshub

These live updates have now finished.

The Green Party's Marama Davidson, New Zealand First's Winston Peters, ACTs David Seymour and the Māori Party's John Tamihere will battle it out during Newshub Nation's Powerbrokers debate.

Newshub Nation's debate is the third debate this week, following Newshub's leaders debate between Judith Collins and Jacinda Ardern on Wednesday and the young leaders debate on Tuesday.

8:30pm - The final remarks.

Asked why voters should vote for them, Davidson said Greens will "make better decisions" while fighting for climate change.

Seymour said the world has changed, New Zealand will need to change too. Says ACT has made "helpful suggestions" throughout COVID-19.

"A party vote for ACT is a vote for MPs because the only problem with ACT MPs is there aren't enough of them."

Tamihere says Māori are not going anywhere and he will seek justice and righteousness and fairness, to break out of the structural racism.

"If the truth of that upsets others, so be it."

Peters says experience and common sense are important in Government.
"You can't be on training wheels - buy some insurance, Party vote NZ First".

 

 

8:27pm - Ihumātao

Peters - "Ihumātao has already been part of a Waitangi Settlement please do not think you can bust open this settlement without having the rest all bust open too"

Tamihere - "1840 the Treaty was signed, 1863 that land was stolen, confiscated by state...if someone steals something from you, you hand it back.

Davidson agrees.

"There are lots of ways to make sure there is a peaceful resolution to this - I;m really proud of this new generation of Māori leaders."

Seymour says the answer is "extremely difficult" .

"Right now because the Prime Minister decided in a dispute to side with the squatters it's now extremely difficult to work through." 

Tamihere - "They're not squatters, they're tangata whenua."

 

8:25 - Waiting list for social housing almost 20,000.

Davidon says Greens will clear the waiting list in five years by building 5000 homes a year and allow for community and iwi providers to build, plus a progressive rent-to-own scheme.

Tamihere wants 50 percent of state housing to be for Māori.

"We're 50 percent of the waiting list!"

Dodges question on what happens to those already in houses.

"Out of 20,000 families on the waiting list, 10,000 are Māori. In any election cycle, one third of our people are kicked out of their houses.'

"We've got a preference - I want those houses to house my families."

 

8:23pm - Seymour - who wants to cut red tape - questions if there's a free market for housing.

Says we need to replace the RMA with an urban management act.

Calls for more innovation among other measures.

Tamihere says the elephant in the room is the lack of capital gains tax.

Davidson says public, community and iwi housing providers need to be prioritised.

 

 

08:20 - Housing - housing prices are still rising.

Peters asked if this is a failure of the Government he's been a part of.

"We've admitted it in respect to one program which I won't name [Kiwibuild]."

Admits Government has failed to turn around the inherited problem of huge demand and limited supply. 

 

8:19 - Quick fire round. Candidates asked what the worst thing they've done is.

Peters says he can't say due to cabinet rules, but laughs when asked about smoking on Smokefree campus - "that's my business not yours". 

Tamihere says he forgot his wedding anniversary last week, has been "on the couch for a while". 

Seymour says his worst mistake is doing pasa doble on Dancing With the Stars. 

Davidson said hers was watching Seymour's pasa doble.

 

8:18 - Climate change. Is Seymour taking it seriously?

He says yes, despite his plans to scrap the Zero Carbon act, calling it "the stupidest decision this Government has made".

"The ban on oil and gas exploration means when we run out of reserves we start importing with higher emissions"

Zero Carbon Act puts "too much power" in hands of Government who decide if business "lives or dies".

Tamihere says present status quo "cannot continue". 

"We must transition". 

 Davidson says it's important to support farmers to move towards cleaner farming, moving away from nitrogen.

 

8:16pm - Seymour says he remembers sitting with Anne Tolley in Cabinet committee arguing to form OT separate from the Ministry of Social Development but after 17 restructures it still isn't good enough 

"Nobody has an answer, we do need to fix it and ACT will bring people into Parliament who know a bit about it and are highly dedicated to fixing it."

Davidon interjects - "that's not true".

"That's not true that no one has an answer - the enduring solutions are found at the frontline where these challenges are which includes Māori women who have long been saying that whanau focused kaupapa maori support structures are where the solutions are."

8:10pm - Peters says children should be a treasure, and Māori world needs a "renaissance" 

'This idea that you can brutalise your children and remain silent is just not right".

Says only answer is a change in the Māori world.

 

8:02pm - The discussion has moved on to the uplift of Māori children by Oranga Tamariki (OT)

Davidson says she calls for proper kaupapa Māori to ensure children are safe and thriving, says the organisation needs "a lot of clean up" before Maori will feel safe.

Tamihere wants $600 million to get rid of Oranga Tamariki.

Says OT cuts the umbilical cord and "rips the child from mother" but children should be placed with safe whanāu. 

"What we need are organisations which fit the problem rather than ,manage it, OT has failed every audit and review possible,"

 

8:01PM - Quick fire.

Peters ok with a four-year term.

Tamihere is a no.

Seymour is yes.

Davidson says she's open to it but it needs to be put to the people.

7:53pm - We're talking the COVID recovery now.

While Seymour wants to cut benefits, Greens would boost them.

"The way to revive our communities is to make sure we provide a guaranteed minimum income."

Laying out the Greens recovery plan.

"Those with more than enough can chip in and help us," she says of tax.

7:49PM - Quickfire round about which politician from another party they'd like Davidson says Nanaia Mahuta, Seymour says he's more interested in getting his own MPs in, Tamihere says no-one, and Peters says David Parker.

We're onto a break now

7:47PM - Back to Peters, who says the "cohesion and cooperation" of the country dealing with the virus is so important.

He still think the military should have been involved in the response from the get go.

7:45PM - On to COVID-19

Tamihere asked about whether we should wait to open the borders until we get a vaccine.

"If you continue waiting for a vaccine... you have a few problems."

He wants a better management system in the interim.

Davidson asked now why the Greens have been a bit quiet on Covid-19.

Says they agree a health response is the appropriate one.

Asked about the border policy. Says Greens have been supporting the Labour approach.

Points out a vaccine might not be a solve all and says other fallbacks are necessary.

7:41pm - Seymour being asked about the other candidates he might bring into Parliament based on current polling.

He's also asked about how running other MPs will go.

Tamihere says Seymour is getting the benefit of "the house burning down".

Getting a few laughs here.

7:41pm - Peters getting a fair bit of air time here, going back and forth about the SFO investigation.

Tamihere now having a say on donations.

Has a little shot at Peters but says things have to be fair.

Davidson asks other parties to support the Greens push to reform political donations.

Peters asking if Greens have a trust.

Seymour getting a say that his party does things by the law and that his party and the Greens are the only ones in Parliament not being investigated by the SFO.

7:38pm -Peters asked about the SFO findings about the NZ First Foundation.

Why is he still crying foul after being exonerated?

He had to go to court over it, he says.

"All I'm asking for is the same rule for my party as any other party."

As for the polls, NZ First has always been the underdogs, and there are thousands of unheard from Kiwis waiting to have their say.

7:37pm - Tamihere asked if he owes Māori a seat at the table.

He says the question is what price you're willing to pay.

Says they building a Māori political movement.

"There's two elections going on," he says. The mainstream one, and the ones for Māori seats.

7:35pm - Seymour asked if there was any way he would work with Labour.

It'd be difficult, he says.

He's never been interested in being deputy PM, he's more interested in policies.

7:34pm - Peters asked if he's been too negative this campaign.

He says NZ First has cooperated with Labour, but now it's every party for themselves.

7:33pm - And we're kicking things off - starting on polling and performance.

Marama is asked what her price is for going with Labour.

Says Greens don't have bottom lines but they do have top priorities.

Climate change, caring for kids, etct.

Won't say if she'd like to be deputy PM