Senior MPs from both National and Labour have been unwilling to say how many deaths would be an acceptable tradeoff for reopening the borders and lifting COVID-19 restrictions.
National's Simon Bridges told The AM Show on Friday "we wouldn't want to see any", and David Parker from Labour said the Government's "objective is for no one to die of COVID".
Their comments come after Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield did what the Government has so far refused to do - set a vaccination target.
"In countries with high vaccination rates, COVID-19 has become a pandemic, or an epidemic, of the unvaccinated," he told media on Thursday. "It's not just any vaccination level, it's a very high vaccination level - we need to be at or above 90 percent and that is where everybody needs to be thinking about and that is why we have geared up our system to make sure we can deliver to that level."
The Government's view to date has been that setting a target would be counter-productive. It might discourage vaccination once the target had been reached, and there would be parts of the country with lower rates, susceptible to an outbreak.
"The Prime Minister's said everyone will have the opportunity to have a vaccine by the end of the year. That's going well - over 70 percent [of those aged 12-plus] at least have had their first shot," Parker explained.
"The higher the percentage the better - we don't want to put a target that then sort of, people ease off once you hit. We want as many people as possible to do their bit to replace the border armour, if you like, with personal armour - where we're all doing our bit and helping each other, as well as protecting ourselves."
As Dr Bloomfield pointed out, even in countries with high vaccination rates - at least when compared to other nations - the virus is still spreading and putting people in hospital. Many have relaxed restrictions with vaccination rates of 70 to 80 percent of the eligible population, and are still experiencing waves of infection.
Modelling has suggested 97 percent coverage will be needed to reach herd immunity, where outbreaks are prevented by denying the virus susceptible new hosts to infect. University of Auckland epidemiologist Rod Jackson told The AM Show on Thursday he'd like to see 95 percent coverage of the eligible population - noting even then, a million Kiwis would still be vulnerable thanks to their age or inability to be vaccinated for health reasons.
"There's only two ways to deal with Delta - lockdowns and vaccinations," said Dr Jackson. "My message to New Zealanders is if you hate lockdowns, get a shot. If you really hate lockdowns, get two."
National has been pushing for a target. Party leader Judith Collins said it should be 70-75 percent - which the country is on track to reach sometime in the next few months. Seventy-eight percent of those eligible have either had a first dose or booked one in, 69 percent for two doses.
Asked how many deaths National would be fine with, Bridges said "we wouldn't want to see any of that".
University of Canterbury modeller Michael Plank this week said at that level of coverage - or even as high as 80 percent - "a large-scale outbreak could still threaten our health service capacity and lead to tens of thousands of hospitalisations and thousands of deaths".
Ireland has just hit 90 percent of its eligible population vaccinated, and they're keeping some restrictions on for another month.
"I would just say actually Rob Fyfe had it exactly right," said Bridges, referring to comments made by the former Air NZ boss this week that the Government should set a target. "We do need to set a vaccination target so we can have a freer economy and society so we can do things like not have the lockdowns, not have to worry so much about gathering numbers and have freer borders."
Parker was challenged on the Government's "impossible" stance that no deaths would be tolerated. He wrongly claimed no one had died in the present outbreak - a woman in her 90s died at North Shore Hospital, as reported by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Dr Bloomfield on September 4.
"[Lifting restrictions] does put pressure on the health system, but if you can keep your numbers low, the health system can keep people safe… it's a bit like saying we don't want anyone to die in hospital from cancer or from heart attacks, and we don't do our absolute utmost so that they won't, but you know, our objective is to keep people safe. We will always have that focus."
