The Human Rights Commissioner met with Brian Tamaki this week ahead of a protest against vaccine mandates and COVID-19 restrictions outside Parliament organised by a group founded by the Destiny Church leader.
In a statement to Newshub, the Human Rights Commission (HRC) confirmed the meeting took place on Tuesday and said the Chief Commissioner, Paul Hunt, is open to talking to those who "have concerns about potential breaches of human rights".
It's "buoyed" Tamaki, who was "surprised" the commissioner wanted to talk. But ACT's David Seymour says the HRC should be abolished, labelling it a "joke" and a "waste of taxpayer money".
The meeting was held virtually on Tuesday morning with Hunt and two commission staffers attending along with three members of the Freedom and Rights Coalition (FRC), which was founded by Tamaki. Newshub can confirm one of those attendees was the controversial pastor, who is currently facing charges in relation to his role in attending and organising protests in violation of COVID-19 restrictions.
The FRC has organised a large number of rallies across the country in recent months. Events in Auckland, which just this month left alert level 3, have been called "extremely disappointing" and a "significant breach" of COVID rules by police.
They've also angered Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, who said the first major stand in Auckland Domain in early October was "obviously illegal" and "morally wrong".
Individuals speaking at the FRC events frequently spout misinformation about the vaccine, such as claiming incorrectly that it is "experimental" and has led to a large number of injuries and deaths. This was the case on Thursday.
A spokesperson for the HRC told Newshub the meeting was a "free and frank discussion of rights and responsibilities".
"The Chief Commissioner and the Human Rights Commission are open to talking with, and meeting, a range of people and organisations who have concerns about potential breaches of human rights. This is what occurred on Tuesday."
Hunt's statement to the coalition
At the rally on Thursday, which happened against a backdrop of tight security measures and a large police presence on the parliamentary forecourt, speaker Heker Robertson thanked protesters for sending their concerns to the HRC.
Robertson, Destiny Church's Wellington pastor, said over the last two weeks, complaints to HRC have significantly risen "thanks to you guys".
"We discussed a number of things," Robertson said. "At the end of the day, we agreed we would work together with the Human Rights Commission, which we see as our interface with Government on defending the human rights of all New Zealanders.
"But they need help to do that. We have put our hand up. We are going to continue to work with them to help them to provide that voice and now the voice you have provided to them cannot be ignored. Together, with one voice, we are strong."
He then read out a statement from Hunt provided to the coalition by the commission.
In that statement, also posted to the HRC website, the commissioner describes how "COVID-19 is hurting many people", including by making people sick, leading to job losses and "stoking fear and anxiety".
He also specifically mentions that people have been "excluded from important public areas" and that he "regrets people being excluded from vital parts of society".
Hunt says people are "confused and angry".
"We mustn't take it out on the vaccinated or unvaccinated, whether we agree with them or not, each has their own history, fears, and reasons."
He also regrets the passing of legislation through Parliament under urgency and thanks Kiwis who "worked extremely hard to eliminate and suppress COVID-19".
"Now we must all work hard to eliminate avoidable social exclusion. I urge you to call for human rights - all human rights - the rights to healthcare, health protection, work, association, and assembly - in this country and beyond.
"I urge you to support fair and reasonable balances between competing rights. I urge you to honour your responsibilities to your whānau, neighbours, society and country. We are all human beings and, as human beings, we all swim - or sink - together."
As Robertson read out Hunt's statement and afterwards, the protesters cheered and applauded.
The commission spokesperson told Newshub the HRC has supported and encouraged Kiwis who are able to be vaccinated to get the jab "as a way to protect themselves and others, and to fulfil their human rights responsibilities".
"It has also launched the Dial it Down campaign to encourage people to exercise restraint and dial down the heat of their conversations – online and in person – about topics like COVID-19."
Tamaki 'buoyed'
Speaking to Newshub on Thursday night, Tamaki, the FRC founder, said he requested a meeting with Hunt to discuss what he believes are draconian restrictions imposed on Kiwis during the pandemic limiting their human rights.
"I felt that it's gone to a level of being very serious," he said. "So, he actually responded, which was quite good. I think he said he had been following the Freedom and Rights Coalition and what we've been doing."
The alert level lockdowns were enforced in August after a case of the Delta COVID-19 variant was found in the community. The purpose of the restrictions was to limit the virus' spread, avoid overwhelming the health care system, and to save lives. While cases have peaked higher than in previous outbreaks, New Zealand hasn't seen the tragedy that's ensued in other countries.
The lockdown required mass gatherings to be banned, something the majority of New Zealanders complied with. In October, in the second month of Auckland's lockdown, the Government began loosening restrictions to allow small numbers of people from two households to meet together outdoors. This balanced easing the rules while trying to keep control of the virus.
Tamaki said they spoke in the meeting about the increase in submissions sent to the HRC from people concerned their rights have been violated.
He didn't want to give further details, although said he asked Hunt to speak at the protest, but that the commissioner couldn't, so he provided a statement.
"I was surprised that they would meet because getting the Chief Human Rights Commissioner, it was big… I believe it was very, very good. I was buoyed by the fact that now, again we are getting serious about collating these human rights abuses, and they've definitely been happening."
'Waste of taxpayer money'
David Seymour has long been a proponent of abolishing the HRC.
He made a number of criticisms earlier this year after it was revealed the HRC gave $200 in koha to the Waikato Mongrel Mob Kingdom during a visit to its gang pad in May. Hunt said the koha was "culturally appropriate" and it would have been "extremely disrespectful" not to offer it.
Both ACT and National condemned Hunt for going to the meeting in the first place, but the commissioner said he had a duty to "educate all New Zealanders about relationships, responsibilities and rights".
Fast-forward seven months, and Seymour is still in favour of getting rid of the HRC.
"The Human Rights Commission gives koha to gang members, so meeting with someone who's organising illegal protests, probably is [a] business as usual day in the office for them," he told Newshub.
He believes the HRC is more of a "political activist group" than a "serious organisation upholding the human rights of New Zealanders when they are violated".
"I've seen circuses with fewer clowns than the Human Rights Commission. They're actually a joke of an organisation, a waste of taxpayer money and besides the Human Rights Review Tribunal that actually takes on hard cases, they should be abolished.
"I think they should be abolished because as an electorate MP, I go in to bat for my constituents. Whenever I've asked for help from the Human Rights Commission, they've run for the hills in the face of real challenges."
Newshub asked the Prime Minister's office if she thought it was appropriate for the HRC to meet with Tamaki given her previous comments about FRC events. Justice Minister Kris Faafoi said in response that the commissioner operates independently.
A Government spokesperson reiterated the value of getting vaccinated: "The Government encourages everyone to be vaccinated as the best protection against the worst effects of COVID-19 and it welcomes the fact that 90 percent of eligible New Zealanders are now fully vaccinated against the virus."
Tamaki told Newshub he couldn't understand why anyone would be upset that the HRC was meeting with him.
"That's the duty of a Human Rights Commission to help people who are suffering from human rights violations, I would have thought. Is it against the law or something?"
The FRC founder had to watch the "fantastic" protest virtually on Thursday. He told Newshub he set off to travel to Wellington on Wednesday and got as far as Levin when his lawyer advised him he should turn around.
"I really hoped there was some way that we could work with the Police Commissioner and the Crown lawyers and my lawyer. I am a determined person. I will try everything. I don't slide back. I don't even think it is right that I should be so bound up with these charges, and particularly that I am not-guilty of it."
Tamaki has been before the court three times since the start of October facing charges over attending and organising protests in breach of alert level 3 restrictions. He's pleaded not guilty to all charges.
After his first charge, he was granted bail on the condition he didn't attend or organise any gathering in breach of the requirements. On subsequent appearances after going to the Auckland Domain while rallies were being held, he denied breaching his bail.
He was given bail at a court appearance on November 23 on the condition he does not visit the Auckland Domain and does not organise, attend, support or speak at any protest gathering in breach of any current COVID-19 alert level requirements. He must also observe all and any requirements and should not use the internet to encourage non-compliance. He challenged this on Friday.
Wellington is currently at 'orange level', which allows outdoor community gatherings of up to 50 people if vaccine passes are not in play or an unlimited number if they are.
"I'd love to attend all the [protests] and I think I should attend all of them," Tamaki said. "Being tied up and gagged and silenced for respecting people's freedoms and rights, it's beyond me to be honest."
Like all New Zealanders, Tamaki can still attend many gatherings within the COVID-19 rules and has thousands of followers across his various social media platforms he continues to communicate with.
