The United States has attempted to use the Five Eyes intelligence alliance to create a bloc which is "more aggressive toward China", Sir John Key says.
But New Zealand - a member of Five Eyes - makes decisions that "are in the best interest of New Zealand", the former Prime Minister says, and he believes having a warm relationship with China makes it easier to "discuss difficult issues".
The comments are found in a Global Times article published overnight. It's the second part of an interview Sir John did with the Chinese state media outlet earlier this year.
He was asked about "Beijing's point of view" that the US is attempting to use the Five Eyes alliance as a "tool against China" and whether he believes New Zealand would join with the US in seeking to contain China.
"We were also a member of the Five Eyes alliance the entire time that I was Prime Minister, but we had a very strong relationship with Beijing and with Washington," Sir John responded, according to the transcript.
"I think that you're right that the United States has tried to use the Five Eyes as a way of building a block which is more aggressive toward China. But when New Zealand says it has an independent foreign policy, what the independent foreign policy means is we make decisions that are in the best interest of New Zealand."
China frequently rails against the Five Eyes, a grouping of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States. It's alleged the US uses the group to "lecture China".
Last year, after the countries expressed concerns about the "erosion" of democracy in Hong Kong, the Chinese Embassy in Wellington said the group had violated international law and norms. China has previously warned the nations to be "careful not to get their eyes poked out".
Sir John said the Five Eyes agreement allows New Zealand access to intelligence that "would be too vast, too expensive, too difficult for us to have access to on our own".
"It's an important relationship from our point of view, but because we are part of it and because we have a good relationship, for instance, with America, doesn't mean by definition we have to have a bad relationship with Beijing."
He said New Zealand can have "good relations with both" the US and China.
"I don't think New Zealand should just parrot things that are said by the Americans or anybody else. They should make its own mind up and exercise its own judgment of what they think is right."
New Zealand hasn't always joined in Five Eyes statements and Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta last year said New Zealand was "uncomfortable" expanding the alliance beyond intelligence matters.
Despite suggestions that New Zealand is the weak spot in the alliance, there was no speculation at the time about New Zealand being booted out of the group.
New Zealand has made a number of statements, independently and with others, condemning China for human rights abuses in Xinjiang and Hong Kong, as well as its activities in the South China Sea. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern raised the issues during her meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Thailand last month.
With China being New Zealand's largest trading partner and "very critical to the health of the New Zealand's economy", Sir John told the Global Times the Government needs to carefully walk a tightrope.
"I've been a strong supporter of New Zealand having a good relationship with China," he said.
"I think it can be win-win on both sides. It doesn't mean that we can't discuss more difficult issues. In fact, I think you're more likely to discuss difficult issues with your friends than you are with people that you're trying to shout at them.
"So to me, I encourage our politicians post my time to choose the words carefully and think about building the best relationship we can."
He said New Zealand disagrees with a number of countries on certain policies, like with the US over the death penalty in some states or with Australia on some migration measures.
"Some people in the West want to see something change in China," Sir John said. "China is more likely to take on board those views from people that treat and trust them as a friend than someone just being constantly negative about them."
Sir John said he raised human rights issues whenever he met with Chinese leadership as Prime Minister.
"They offered a different perspective. So it's always difficult to judge what's right and wrong. I think most New Zealanders would take the view that human rights is an important issue. We expect New Zealanders to enjoy freedoms and in the right to do many things, and while we have to respect other countries that have a different system."
After comments from his interview with the Global Times were published in October, Sir John confirmed to Newshub the publication approached him and his words had been relayed accurately.
Academics were astounded at the time that the former Prime Minister had spoken with China's "propaganda outlet" and said Sir John's remarks were "classic Chinese government talking points".
Since he left office in 2016, Sir John has participated in several interviews on the relationship between China and New Zealand, and particularly how economically reliant Aotearoa is on the Asian nation.
He also went on personal trip to China to meet with Xi after stepping down as Prime Minister. He later told RNZ the Chinese President considers him a friend and sends him Christmas cards.
