Two former Wallabies have stuck the boot into Rugby Australia, as the union stands firm on their demands in a new-look Super Rugby competition.
The Rugby Australia board has met to discuss NZ Rugby's 'Aratipu' review, but it's being urged to put pride to one side and concede to having fewer teams involved, or risk the game going from bad to worse.
Australian rugby has gone backwards in recent years and as Super Rugby forges a new future, across the Tasman, they're adamant it should include all five Aussie franchises - including the previously axed Western Force.
But is Australian rugby strong enough to warrant five teams? Former Wallaby Peter FitzSimons doesn't need long to formulate a response.
"Let me think about that?" he replies to Newshub. "No."
The 'Aratipu' review recommends Super Rugby move to an 8-10 team format from next year.
Five of those would be the current New Zealand franchises, with a strong desire to also include a Pacific Islands team. That could leave room for 2-4 Australian sides.
"The good players were too diluted across five teams to make any impact and we were reduced to doing a victory lap when we won a coin toss against New Zealand sides," FitzSimons adds.
Former Wallaby Greg Martin believes there's only room for the Waratahs, Reds and Force, and any more than that would be detrimental to the sport in Australia.
"We've got enough talent for three, but we ain't got it for five and if you spread it too thin, they're going keep getting beaten like they have," Martin tells Newshub.
"What happens when it comes to putting a Wallabies team together? They're going to have no confidence."
Last week, NZR chief executive Mark Robinson said he was optimistic it could secure an outcome that suits both parties.
"My discussions with my counterpart in Australia have certainly been constructive and positive," Robinson said.
Martin and FitzSimons stress Australia's rugby relationship with New Zealand has never been more important.
"New Zealand might be small in size, but in rugby, they're a monster," Martin adds. "We have just got to be linked to you guys."
FitzSimons says: "Never has Australian rugby needed NZ rugby as much as we do right now."
So far, Rugby Australia has been reluctant to admit that, but for the good of the game's future, it might have to.
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